Sunday, June 3, 2007

Round 2: Diplomas Withheld Beacuase Of Cheering

This topic has certainly generated a great deal of interest and given this blog more comments than on any previous post.

I understand not holding the student responsible for some other person's actions. However, the school's administration foresaw a problem based on past events, and took action.

So many schools take no action because of possible backlash for parents and the community.

It is a "damned if you do and damned if you don't" situation.

I think the students and parents will live through this. Look at what one of the students said. She indicated she would let the school keep the diploma of her appeal was denied.

The sad thing is that the school and the administration will probably cave in to the parents and give them the students their diplomas without any further action.

Schools and administrators don’t want the headaches that go with their decisions. What a shame. If they do indeed cave in, it will open them up for future attacks on their decisions.


Thanks for your posts. I apprecate the readership and your posts being in a civil manner.

18 comments:

James Landrith said...

"Texas Truth" apparently doesn't get it.

The students were not making noise. The spectators were making noise. Students - no noise. Spectators - noises.

Students - punished. Spectators - not punished.

The students were punished for actions committed by others.

The students were punished for actions committed by others.

The students were punished for actions committed by others.

The students were punished for actions committed by others.

Again, for the folks who don't get it: The students were punished for actions committed by others.

How is punishing one person for the actions of another anything approaching fairness? Maintaining order and decorum? Give me a break. This is the equivalent of putting my child in detention because I got in an argument with his teacher.

Learn the difference.

It is not the responsibility of high school students to control their parents and family members. Anyone advocating otherwise is promoting "guilt by association", a rather unAmerican concept.

Greg Laden said...

Are you sure this really happened? There does not seem to be a link to any source (or am I just missing it)?

Texas Truth said...

greg laden: check out the link here:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070602/ap_on_re_us/graduation_decorum

Texas Truth said...

James Landrith:

Thanks for you post. You have an interesting way of putting things!!!

Thanks for you post. You have an interesting way of putting things!!!

Thanks for you post. You have an interesting way of putting things!!!

Thanks for you post. You have an interesting way of putting things!!!

As far as promoting Un-American ideals??? I cannot understand where that came. I guess because of you raising the race card on your website!!!

I guess race is the reason everything happens in the country. To me, that is Un-American.

I really must have hit a nerve with you!!!

How would you have felt if these people had disrupted YOUR child's graduation?

Either way, you have your opinion and I have mine and we will not change each others views.

Time will tell what happens in this case. Time WILL tell!!!

James Landrith said...

How would I feel if these ADULTS had interrupted my child's graduation?

I would want the ADULTS thrown out rather acting like a bully and picking on their innocent kids. But then, I'm not a bully.

That is what I would do.

Why is that so hard to understand?

It isn't - for those who know the difference.

For those who think it's okay to pick on kids for what their parents did, well - that speaks volumes about the person picking on the kids...

Texas Truth said...

Well, the decision is not one we had to make. The administration obviously felt something needed to be done and they did it. Everyone involved will have to live with it.

So you said you would have the adults THROWN out. They may have tried that the previous year. I really don't know. Have you looked into the history of this incident?

It seems this kind of behavior had a history at their graduation.

As an educator, I know whatever action is taken in any situation, someone will be upset.

As I have said, TIME WILL TELL if anything happens.

James Landrith said...

That ignores the fact that punishing a child for a parent's behaviour is a coward's way out. Should my child be jailed if I assault another parent at a football game? According to this type of illogic - yes.

Again, this is picking on an innocent child, rather than facing the parent who was misbehaving.

Bully behaviour by the high school.

Do you teach your students that the ends justify the means and that guilt by association should replace individual responsibility?

As a parent and former educator, I know that mistreating children, rather than dealing with the delinquent parent is a coward's way out.

And that is exactly what you are promoting here.

Texas Truth said...

WOW! I was right. I guess this strikes a nerve with you.

I can see the fire BOILING within you.

I guess you need to mobilize all your ACLU buddies, march into Galesburg and help these poor students.

Opps: My mistake, the ACLU said they had no problem with the action, as look as it was enacted universally. So I guess that is a moot point unless you want to throw in the race card.

Looking at your blog, it looks like you have already played the race card and possibly have another agenda, especially since the letter on your web site was addressed/CCed to:
Julian Bond, the Chairman of the NAACP and Wade Henderson, President and CEO of Leadership Conference on Civil Rights.

James Landrith said...

My "agenda" is civil liberties and fairness. I've worked with both Ward Connerly and Julian Bond on issues of shared agreement. I've worked with the Christian Coalition and Quakers on other issues. Your strawman has been dismantled.

Your "agenda" is guilt by association and treating children like property of the government.

And, of course, you are still dodging the issue of punishing a child for a parents actions - like a coward.

How's that for striking a nerve?

James Landrith said...

By the way, you copied the "agenda" accusation from another blogger. Cute strawman - but easily dismantled above.

James Landrith said...

Should I march into Galesburg with my conservative coalition friends in the:

American Conservative Union?
American Civil Rights Institute?
Free Congress Foundation?
Christian Coalition?
Eagle Forum?

Can I also include my libertarian coalition friends in the:

Libertarian Party?
Liberty Coalition?
Downsize DC?
Republican Liberty Coalition?
Democratic Freedom Caucus?

Can they come with the ACLU too?

Texas Truth said...

james landrith: I guess we will continue to disagree on this.

As far as dodging the issue I don't feel that I have. I have stated what I believe. You can accept it or not.

As I said, if you feel so strongly about this, round up you buddies and go down to Galesburg.

By all means, show your support for them.

As far as you, you claimed to be a former educator, what level did you teach? You never did answer that question.

Race and civil liberties are always brought up when things like this happen. I wonder how fast you would have been to support the cause if they had been white students and their parents.

You don't have to answer the question, I already know the answer you will give (of course you would have).

Good luck on your "cause" and "agenda." You certainly seemed like you are "hell bent for leather" to stick up for these people. I say go for it!!! Exercise your American right to write letters and state your views. That is what this country is all about.

Isn't it great we live in a country where we can disagree and support the causes we feel strongly about?


PS: as far as seeing something on a different blog and quoting it, SO WHAT!!!!!

James Landrith said...

Wow. 30 years of teaching and your retort is "SO WHAT"?

I dismantled that fallacy earlier. I guess "SO WHAT" is about all you've got left at this point.

Three Brothers And A Sister said...

http://www.threebrothersandasister.blogspot.com/2007/06/yeah-i-said-it-black-family-acting.html

Three Brothers and A SISTER
"We Speak For All Black Folks... So You Won't Have To!"


Tuesday, June 5, 2007
YEAH, I SAID IT - BLACK FAMILY ACTING GHETTO COSTS A HONORS STUDENT HER DIPLOMA

And the young sistah shouldn't get it -- at least not right now. If you're gonna be ghetto, you gotta deal with the consequences.

Yeah, that's right I said it.

The lesson here folks is we have to stop co-signing on bad behaviour. The family signed a contract and agreed to behave. Our young people must learn that your word is your bond. Period!

Anonymous said...

When I graduated, we made sure to cheer for everyone who put forth the effort and the time.

Graduation is a momentus time in a young person's life. The movement from child to adult. The movement from being told what to do all the time to having the responsibility to doing the right thing.

If people can't cheer for the ones they love that have made the sacrafices and done the work...what is this world truly coming to?

Do we need ettiquette? Each culture is different, and so we look to Texass, to show us the right way?

If anything, as a parent myself, I would sue the hell out of that school for holding back something that is justly deserved just so they can try to save face.

If the rule is unjustly made, then it needs to be changed....let's show the young people of the world that the system is fallable and changable instead of rigid and uncaring.

Anyone who supports the holding of these diplomas just sickens me , I think I felt a little bit of america die just by reading this blog, story and so on.

Quote - "Maybe instead of spending money and time on a useless protocol that achieves nothing, maybe they should spend the time and money on the younger children coming up through the system.

Law and Order Teacher said...

Sedative please. I think I learned a long time ago that name-calling and accusations are weak. Repeating them ad nauseum doesn't make your point any better. How about trying to pull your fingers out of your ears while you make noises and try listening. Also name dropping is not impressive.

James Landrith said...

"law and order teacher" - you go ahead and take that sedative.

Nighty-night.

I assume you are talking about me with the "name-dropping" accusation.

If you were paying attention, I was countering a prior comment by the blog owner regarding marching on Galesburg with the ACLU and such.

The first tactic of conservatives when the facts aren't on their side is to question the motives of those in disagreement.

I made it quite clear that I work with people from all across the political spectrum. It was a point that needed to be made in response to a childish taunt by the blog owner - whether you agree or not.

Anonymous said...

The school and school district are not supported by their State Board of Education.

Refusal to tender the property of the students, under state law, is simply illegal. The Diploma is not issued by the school and school officials are, so to speak, simply the delivery or postpersons.

The students (not the parents) should refuse all further discussions or meetings with school officials and take legal action to take obtain court ordered possession of their property.

The sudden invention of proposed new requirements, beyond prior law, for receipt of the diplomas is entirely contrary to natural justice and cannot stand a legal challenge.

The so-called contracts are not contracts at all, and can certainly be seen as documents signed under duress, the duress being not being allowed to attend, or the threat of such.

They should also seek exemplary and punitivie damages against the individual school administrators concerned, as well as costs, of course. When the Principal or the Superintendents have to pay the kids (not the parents) thousands and thousands out of their own pockets, that will be a lesson those deep thinkers won't soon forget.

Of course, the isolated martinets running the schools do not understand that "guilt by association", and "punishing the innocent rather than the actual offenders" were thrown out of the legal systems of evolving democracies long before even our own Constitution was written.

The ultimate remedy is for large numbers of graduating students, supported by their parents, to refuse to attend the school-run, rule-ridden, contract-silly, arbitrary ceremonies designed by school officials and, instead, organize and run their own ceremonies, in very nice halls or hotels off campus. Only the teachers voted by 60% or more of the graduates should be invited, and the diplomas can be mailed directly to the students' homes, or held forever for that matter.

At least, as one commentator remarked, they could design a program were long, repetitive and essential boring speeches by self-promoting educrates, local politicians and pompous dignitaries could be dispensed with.

Indeed, for students (not parents) who write directly to State officials, the diplomas can be mailed directly from the State Board itself, thus avoiding the sticky-little hands of petty tyrants and would be godlings.

All that being said, I don't think the issue is grounded in race or ethnicity, although all of the students concerned do happen to be from visible minorities.